there's a lot of talk about the anti-fascist wall that Israel is setting up in order to keep jewish people safe from getting killed just because of being jews! This is already a subject on its own and for sure needs some talk, but instead of repeating the repeated i want to come up with some hypotheses. Let's imagine Israel is pulling out of the gaza strip and maybe also out of the West Bank. Let's imagine Israel is building the wall along the green line, let's call it "the lines of 1967". I imagine the next step for the people of Palestine would be a state on their own ! A free palestine ! What would this country be ? Who would be in control ? Or would it be a communist country all different from any other country in this world ? Would it be a country where religion is a private matter and not like in Luxemburg be an institutionalized Must for everyone ? Would a free palestine mean - no more violence towards jews ? would it mean free speech for everyone ? would it be a democracy ? ... Let's hear from you!
"no germans, no holocaust." daniel j. goldhagen
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ok diff......äh marxist tourist. you´re a kind of a hypocrite aren´t you?! first you start the discussion by talking about the anti-anti jewish wall and than you come allong with some imaginations about the palestines.......what would you really talk about? about the bad,bad palestines or about the good,brave jews??? you´ve allready given the answer to your own question. we´re all living in reality.....and as a realist i know that even the subject of a state called palestina is NOT the answer to the problems in this whole fucked up world. although it might become a little bit better.....who knows that?! nevertheless, the wall and all the symbols aligned with it is a step in the wrong direction. you won´t solve the fucking problems by building a wall. must ba a very good feeling to live behind a security wall in affluence and security. do you belive that? and who cares what system or religion will dominate the new palestinian state?! not me! got enough problems in my own fucking country. that´s it for the moment. cheers
---my only aim and desire-to set ALL nations on fire----
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just a few things before I dissappear...
marxist tourist: (exact quote from you)
by the way israel is the only state on this planet that was created in order to protect people ! no other country ever had such an aim ! NEVER am I wrong or aren´t there numerous of states that had been under fascist regimes or other kinds of oppression that were created, after gaining independance, in order to protect their own people???
do you really think that israel wants to conquer the world with those weapons or have you ever thought about the fact that those (nuclear weapons) might be used in the worst case scenario to defend the people of Israel ok... do you think little Pakistan is out to conquer the world with it´s nuclear programm? ok, they´re fighting for Kashmir mainly, but what about Syria, Northern Korea and all those other little countries being threatened by the U.S. at the moment? or slightly bigger ones like Iran and Iraq? world domination??? I doubt it... does the holocaust, or the history as we know it, give Israel exclusive rights to build up enormous nuclear programs?
everybody knows jesus never lived in france but somewhere in india or tibet ok, you claim to be an atheist, you claim not to care, still you assert this?? everybody knows? hmm.. I very seriously doubt that! everybody, or let´s say the masses, they swallow that Gibson crap as it comes from the cow, they don´t have the guts to look at other possibilities! According to the sanskrit documents Jesus was in India before he got crucified, he dissappeared at least for 12 years, returned from India, supposingly walking over the sea, claiming to be one with God after he had practised his spirituality in India. this is relevant, f.ex. very relevant to all this anti-semitism you speak of, funny that you say it isn´t...
not rothschild but rockefeller supported hitler while rothschild supported the commies rothshild supported both the nazies and the commies, that is proven, besides that Rockefeller used to work with the Rothshilds.
XlevYashinX: you are completely wrong in most other information you are trying to provide. I.e.: Pretending that the bankers Rothshild were the only to benefice from the holocaust I see that I miswrote saying that they were the only ones... of course they were not the ONLY ones to benefit. but I surely stick to that they benefitted the MOST. I would be interested in hearing where else I was "completely" wrong. please explain. cheers
It would also be interesting to hear your answers to Faulomat´s writings about the wall, marxist tourist. I totally agree with him on that subject, I think this is the worst idea the Israeli government has had out of innumerous bad ideas. mainly the whole ideology is wrong! this way the problems will never be solved, never.
Satan´s Pimp: go have a fat burger and some liberty fries and just chill out dude
shalom
"Like it or not, everything is changing. The result will be the most wonderful experience in the history of man or the most horrible enslavement that you can imagine. Be active or abdicate, the future is in your hands." - William Cooper, October 24, 1989
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dear merovingian, since you returned and still seem fascinated by the subject and got my in a bad moment now i am going to drop words that might not be of too much sympathy, not for you as a person but just for the unserious crap you're posting. Why the hell are you not posting all these antisemit conspiracy nonsene on indymedia or any other "blood and honor" site ? at least you won't have anybody going mad at you! but since I started the whole conversation and since i inteded to have people like you voice your opinion and finally come up with the words that everybody's almost trying to avoid, i am not backing down.
What i am most concerned about is the fact that right at this moment i have the very bad feeling that a new kind of rascism is about to gain ground. All this very important talk about antisemitism is making a lot of people become more and more sceptical towards anything that is related to Islam. I don't make a difference between jews, muslims, christians or whatever label people need in order to get through this all fucked up system! as long as we are not able to finally get rid of the idea that the human being has to produce in order to live, and as long as we are blinded by the believe that it is LABOR and payment we need to progress, nothing will ever change, only the names, places and faces. My question about the wall in Israel, never intended to be rhetorical, even though people tried to believe according to my previous postings i might be in favor of such a wall and a palestinian state, but my question was turned into an answer, a statement i never made! When the berlin wall fell, and people were celebrating on the streets, i was obvious that a wall no matter how important it was in a political sense, can never ever make people progress and become finally more human. SO i do not defend the wall in Israel as an emancipation or anything else! it is a shame that humans have to lock up humans just like we do to animals! On the other hand it is even more a shame that people are blowing up themselves in buses and trains because they believe that only their holy believes are counting! You don't hear of a communist or pacifist or secular muslim blowing up himself in a bus! but you do hear about fundamentalists. I don't give a shit if you're a muslim, a jew or whatever, if you're an asshole, you're an asshole! I don't believe in judaism, nor in Islam or any other brainwashing! I don't pray, don't talk to a god and i don't want any god in my life or my house! That is what i care about and since we are not able to get rid of capitalism maybe we should start getting emancipated at least on the concern of religion.
Merogivngian you are mixing up potatoes with tomatoes all the time. i am saying mixing but i mean you are trying to all the time blame the jews for everything just like antisemits do! "the holocaust is no excuse" i think this what you exactly mean with all your arguments.
"you are not what you think you are" - welcome to fight club
"no germans, no holocaust." daniel j. goldhagen
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dear marxist tourist, you wrote me a personal note, after my first posting, asking me to keep this stuff coming, also if it could be some weird stuff... that´s what I have been doing with only a good intention. I still don´t get why you say all the time I sound like a neo-rascist or antisemist or whatever.. It seems to me like you have a funny way looking at those things, since I´ve only mentioned those 3 names, and stressed all the time that we shouldn´t focus on ANY nation nor religion while determinating the problem. We are all earthlings, facing the same problem!! I totally agree with you concerning the production side of capitalism, 100%! That doesn´t change the other facts about the money makers, where do they spin their wheels? How do they do it? Through funds and assets based upon useless and even destroying production, right? They are not all Jewish, if that is what you think I believe, besides that I never stated anything like that. Many of them are Europeans, probably most of them, others Americans, and others from the rest of the globe. Besides, as stressed so many times before, That doesn´t matter!! where they come from is not relevant, and just causes more rasiscm and related problems! The banking system is bad, no doubt! If you don´t think so I would love to hear your arguments! others than money being abstract. sure it is but that is no argument!
I agree with you on that new kind of rascism gaining ground and I am a fighter against all kinds of rascism, that´s why I think it´s important to spread this message of not focusing on nations, flags, religions and so on... let's look at ourselves as human beings, no matter where we come from.
Fundamentalists are always the ones creating a mess, no matter what religion. But it is as well dangerous to critisize and humiliate all religion because of that! A lot of people turn to religion after serious drug abuse f.ex. or having lived in war driven zones or other disasters. A lot of people really go through a lot of hell, hell you don´t seem to know, from the way you speak. Imagine being raped as a child watching your parents hang themselves, living in constant fear of military and bombs or living in a "Kazett". It is not an easy thing to gain lust for life after things like that. A believe in a supreme power, a meaning of life is often the only way to work yourself through stuff like that. Therefore religion can be good and useful. You don´t damn the whole forest because of a few bad leaves... An ex-junkie in a shelter helping other junkies, with the bible in his hands, must be better than the same guy on the street robbing old ladies for his next shot... Some of those people are indeed brainwashed, others are not. it doesn´t matter from the point of view that they finally have a meaning in their life, good intentions and they do their best in showing that in good deeds.
call me antisemist if ya want, you seem to be on a mission in categorising people as such... well, have fun on that mission.
but, if you should answer to this, how about beginning in answering to my last posting, you so cunningly tried to skate past now, in not answering one bit.
with respect, merovingian
"One monster has been captured, but another remains. US-UK policies have vacillated over the years, but there has been one constant strain: Iraqis must not rule Iraq. They can be permitted nominal sovereignty, but under outside control: UK in the early years, US now. That is the perception of Iraqis today as well, so western-run polls reveal. That "monster" should also be overthrown from within. That's our task. There is a remarkable struggle underway right now over who will rule Iraq. I am not referring to bombings, but to the steadfast refusal of Iraqis to accept the plans for their future of the overlord." Noam Chomsky https://blog.zmag.org/ttt/archives/cat_us_foreign_policy.html
Re: over the wall
Dear merovingian
I sent you this note because i truly believe in discussions. At least I believe in communication and I think the more people communicate and discuss subjects, the less they are ignorant. By getting into a discussion you go through a couple of phases in which you first start to blow out naked truth and use words that are similar to cheap commercials for beer or candy. When you finally get over this, lets call it emotional explosion, and you still feel the need to go on in a discussion then I believe you also start to accept things you couldnt accept in the past. The note was a thank you for coming up with the arguments that a hell lot of people are carrying in their secret rucksack, but dont really dare to come up with. I live in place called Luxemburg. When people hear of Luxemburg most ones think of money and of course of money makers. Stereotyped thinking. Making up causes. 1 + 1 must equals 2. This is mainly how we all act when judging people or societies in general. We dont really see people as victims of a system that can never work, we see them as the aggressors. I dont believe in all this good peasant bad banker stuff. I dont see why the banker should feel more guilt than the peasant ? Both are responsible for a system that is not supposed to work and both are not capable of making the change. As long as peasant, farmers, wokers keep producing, we can go on talking but wont achieve anything. So why always keeping on blaming the mess on one side ? Maybe Im sounding like a right wing neo liberal Streetfighter but that is just what Im trying to avoid! I think that ones we have brought the whole discussion on why anti-Semitism is existing, we might also come up with reflections why we are not able of changing this society in a whole.
Dear Merogingian My thoughts on the whole Israel subject are that I find it really astonishing that so many people are so much focused on this issue that they dont forget about their own history, no matter if it is past, present or future. Not many people talk about Germany for example, a country that once again in a 100 year history is becoming the leading force in Europe, and this all through the European union, which will soon be called GERMANIA. Not many people in this place come up with arguments on our local policies, at least not those who fervently talk about Palestina and Israel ! Everybody right now is talking about the wall in Israel or about their nuclear weapons and human rights and so on and so on. You, for example, come up with Kashmir (which I really dont have to comment do I? ) or North Korea or even which is really funny the Iraq and Iran. I mean at least you could have named Sudan or what about Kosovo, or even the Bombing of Belgrad ? Israel has got nuclear weapons yes. Israel builds up a wall yes. Israel is not about territorial supremacy and you wont find in history of the jewish population any conquistadors, inquisitions and so on. (unless you believe in the david vs goliath story!) Like i already said it, i am not advocating the state of israel all i want is that people start becoming more focused on their local problems, on their lifes and what we can do to finally get rid of capitalism! I mean we have elections here coming up and nobody should go, but cares about that!
I want the money Quinton rampage Jackson !
"no germans, no holocaust." daniel j. goldhagen
Re: over the wall
I didn´t say nor mean that the banker is bad. I said that "banks" are bad. Bankers are just ordinary people like you and me trying to make a living. But the whole banking system is wrong. Making money out of nothing is wrong, cuz somewhere down the line, somebody is always bleeding for your personal profit. Money doesn´t multiply with itself like economists try to make us believe. Interests on money you have lying in your account, comes from the economic difference, we in the western world have created, with the so-called third world. I used to work in a bank myself, and what I noticed there is that it does suck the employees soul up as time passes. As an employee you have to adopt to that society which exists there, you have to be at ease with the fact that you are busting your ass off for an economical giant´s multiprofit, while trying to ignore the voice of your conscience which is pointing out how those profits have come to exist. It is important that people don´t think that Jews have invented the banking system, cuz that is a big root for this anti-semitism. We have to work against that bullshit. I personally think that they have been for many the ideal scapegoats all this time.
By the way, the evil-doers, the REAL enemy that I am trying to point out lives on anti-semitism. They have been placing roots for anti-semitism to get to their goal.
"Quant au Plan comme tel, quelques-uns des Articles (Morales et Dogmes d'Adam Weishaupt, remis à jour par Albert Pike en 1871) suffisent pour nous donner une idée assez juste de la philosophie de base des Illuminati Ces Articles stipulent, entre autre :
- Article I, Paragraphe 2 : " L'anti-sémitisme est indispensable pour nous dans l'admiration de plus petit de nos frères"
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